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Post by Grendel on Dec 14, 2004 22:40:49 GMT -5
I understand what you are saying...
I do not think that the story and the things that happened in the saga would work without Buu. I just don't see fitting in the Kai's for Brolly, fusion, a reason for Goku and Vegeta's fusion ending (granted the one they gave was stupid but still), Mystic Gohan, I just don't see it working...that is just my opinion and everyone is entitled to their own...
I don't think you can have the saga without Buu so I say to Buu...that is what the question asked...do you want to keep the Character of Buu...and my answer is yes and my reason is above...
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Post by rjxsapri® on Dec 14, 2004 23:02:02 GMT -5
If they do keep Buu, they would have to change his character so much, that it would be like having a totally new character. He wouldn't behave nothing like Buu.
If they use Buu just like he was in the series, then that's something that would hurt the movie. Like it or not it would.
So, I just think that there's not much point in keeping Buu if nearly everything about him is going to be changed.
Anyways, I haven't even voted. I'm still undecided on having the Buu from the series just to have the humor (even thought it would ruin the epic feel of the franchise), a totally changed and renewed Buu (that wouldn't be like Buu then) or having Brolly (the best villain from the DBZ movies, and the second from all DBZ).
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Post by Grendel on Dec 14, 2004 23:17:25 GMT -5
I don't think they would totally have to change is character...of course there has be be changes made, but why do they have to totally change his character?
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Post by rjxsapri® on Dec 14, 2004 23:38:41 GMT -5
He'll definetely have to be changed for someone who knows what he's doing. Someone with a deeper reason for wanting to destroy and a deeper reason for his hate. He must feel hate to be pure evil. You can't take a pile of pink gum and say that he's the incarnation of evil. At least not in an epic movie.
Since he has to be turned into a character with a conscience and that knows what he's doing and does it because of his hate, that would be totally different from the Buu we saw in the series.
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Post by Grendel on Dec 15, 2004 0:03:38 GMT -5
Buu is a creation...he can be created however Bibidi saw fit...he doesn't need a conscience because he wasn't created with one...
Fat Buu has one because he obsorbed the fat kai...
I think there was a (very weak) struggle between good and evil within Buu until he split into good and evil...then evil won out..
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Post by rjxsapri® on Dec 15, 2004 0:12:56 GMT -5
Anyways, he's still a big pink ballooon and we need to believe he's the incarnation of evil. There's nothing evil in a creation that has no conscience. I say that you have to know you are being evil in order to be evil.
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Post by Grendel on Dec 15, 2004 0:17:43 GMT -5
if you have no conscience then you can do anything and not care...he may not have hate without emotion or a conscience...but he can be evil without one...I think that the only thing that could stop someone from being pure evil is a conscience...
I am of the opposite belief...you cannot be pure evil if you have a conscience (because a conscience tells you what you are doing is wrong...meaning there is part of you that isn't evil..that knows you're doing wrong)
Anyways I think there is a lot you can do with Buu without changing him too much...there would need to be an expantion to his character, but you wouldn't have to change how he acts or give him emotion...
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Post by rjxsapri® on Dec 15, 2004 0:31:02 GMT -5
if you have no conscience then you can do anything and not care...he may not have hate without emotion or a conscience...but he can be evil without one...I think that the only thing that could stop someone from being pure evil is a conscience... I am of the opposite belief...you cannot be pure evil if you have a conscience (because a conscience tells you what you are doing is wrong...meaning there is part of you that isn't evil..that knows you're doing wrong) Anyways I think there is a lot you can do with Buu without changing him too much...there would need to be an expantion to his character, but you wouldn't have to change how he acts or give him emotion... Evil, hmmm. Evil derives from hate, which is an emotion. Hate is the most evil human emotion, and to be evil you have to have the conscience and be aware that what you're doing is wrong but still not care about it. I think that if you someone that doesn't have conscience or an idea that what he's doing is wrong is not evil, but mentally retarded. That's what Buu seemed to be.
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Post by Grendel on Dec 15, 2004 15:29:53 GMT -5
Evil doesn't necessarily derive from hate...
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Post by Reptile on Dec 15, 2004 15:43:00 GMT -5
Anyways, he's still a big pink ballooon.. Lol...yup...that's Buu
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Post by SnakeFire on Dec 15, 2004 17:07:58 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but neither Frieza nor Cell were nothing at all like Buu. Frieza was the best villian in the series, he was like the big boss of Goku's ancestors and the most feared person in the entire universe at the time. He was like the man Goku was destined to beat to prove he was definetely the strongest. Cell was created because of hate towards Goku. By a scientist that worked for an army that once ruled the world. But Buu, a "demon" or something that doesn't talk, shows to be stupid, yet being "pure evil". The worst thing is, that the Z fighters begin risking their lifes against him when he hasn't done anything to them really. Vegeta explodes giving his own life to kill a villain who talks and thinks like a baby. That's BAAAD. And contrary to Cell, Vegeta, or Frieza; Buu has no reason to hate Goku. He just came on out of nowhere and were expected to think of him as the villain for no reason. Remember, one of the things that make a great movie is to have a great bad guy, and Buu isn't a great bad guy. What you all fail to realize is this little key factor- he wants to destroy the world, and everything along with it. So yeah, he has nothing personal against Goku. But because he is risking the lives of others, is it wrong for Goku and the other Z fighters to help protect the weaker beings that live along with them,without them feeling personally threatened? It may be some what of a change compared to the other sagas, but it was a good saga. Heroes are not made because they fight off the ones who threaten them- they are made because they step up for the ones who don't have a chance.. Not to mention, the movie won't be as long as all of the episodes that they made, you know? So the Buu that acts like a baby may not be in there as long as you think. They still have the Buu that came to be after Buu's evil side swallowed the good side up, the Buu that absorbs Gotenks and Piccolo, the Buu that than absorbs Gohan, and than- Kid Buu. So, maybe you wouldn't have to see the baby-like Buu as much as you think...
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Post by rjxsapri® on Dec 15, 2004 19:07:39 GMT -5
What you all fail to realize is this little key factor- he wants to destroy the world, and everything along with it. So yeah, he has nothing personal against Goku. But because he is risking the lives of others, is it wrong for Goku and the other Z fighters to help protect the weaker beings that live along with them,without them feeling personally threatened? It may be some what of a change compared to the other sagas, but it was a good saga. Heroes are not made because they fight off the ones who threaten them- they are made because they step up for the ones who don't have a chance.. Not to mention, the movie won't be as long as all of the episodes that they made, you know? So the Buu that acts like a baby may not be in there as long as you think. They still have the Buu that came to be after Buu's evil side swallowed the good side up, the Buu that absorbs Gotenks and Piccolo, the Buu that than absorbs Gohan, and than- Kid Buu. So, maybe you wouldn't have to see the baby-like Buu as much as you think... I never said Goku fought Frieza nor Cell but personal reasons, but Frieza and Cell have a deeper (much deeper) than Buu. Frieza kills innocent people like any other ruthless dictator would do. He knows what he's doing and he doesn't care about it, he only likes to prove his strenght to the weak and to make sure nobody disobeys his rules. That's why he also wipes out the Saiyan race, because he fears they might be the ones that end up rebelling against him, he fears the Legendary Super Saiyan and his powers, he knows that what he's doing is wrong and that one day he'll have to pay for his actions, and that the Legendary Super Saiyan will end up being stronger than him. Cell likes fear. He has as much pride as Frieza but he wasn't as powerful as him at first. His fist goal was to become the strongest, and then everyone would fear him. He even stated once that the reason why he made the Cell games was to defeat the most powerful warriors on Earth and then disperse fear across the world. He said he loved to see people panic when they saw him. That means he was pretty sure what he was doing, he was an evil person. Probably it wasn't as obvious to see that as it was with Frieza but in a movie it shouldn't be that hard to clear that up. Then, there's Buu. The incarnation of Evil. Then it turns out that he's a joke of a villain that talks like a baby. Even though, the fat Buu is the second best from the three, just because of his humorous side. He transformed in Super Buu that was best only because he did talk and let go of his "emotions" once or twice. And Kid Buu is the worst of all, he's as stupid as the first one, doesn't talk at all, we don't even know if he even cares about being killed or if he even fears being killed (Frieza and Cell feared being surpassed), and he's worse than Fat Buu since he isn't even humorous. So, there it is, even though I AM a purist when it comes to Dragon Ball, I think that if the movie is to be a great epic film, it should get rid or drastically change Buu.
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Post by SnakeFire on Dec 15, 2004 20:14:33 GMT -5
Than let them drastically change Buu, instead of replacing him with an entirely different villain...
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Post by rjxsapri® on Dec 15, 2004 20:21:20 GMT -5
Than let them drastically change Buu, instead of replacing him with an entirely different villain... That's one of the options, but then, what would be the point of having Buu if he wouldn't be like Buu. The problem is, to make Buu suitable, his character would have to be changed a lot, and if that happens, then why not better change him for a better villain from the series and not change that other villain?
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Post by SnakeFire on Dec 15, 2004 20:30:09 GMT -5
Because a lot of hard core fans would be pissed off at the fact that you replaced one of the villains from the manga, and put one of the villains from the movies in a LAM.
I say leave Buu and all of his babyness...
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