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Post by rjxsapri® on Dec 15, 2004 23:25:43 GMT -5
Because a lot of hard core fans would be pissed off at the fact that you replaced one of the villains from the manga, and put one of the villains from the movies in a LAM. I say leave Buu and all of his babyness... I'm a hardcore fan, and that's why I would get more pissed off if the movie sucks than if they change things for good. I want these movies to leave a good image to non-fans, and I don't think a character like Buu will do it. At least not to someone who doesn't know anything about DragonBall or anime. I don't think a matter like this shouldn't be based on pleasing hardcore fans, coz they only want to see what they saw in the anime. I think this matter should be handled in a way it would please a broader audience, yet having the DB trademark in it.
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Post by SnakeFire on Dec 16, 2004 15:55:43 GMT -5
Whether you like it or not, Buu is a part of the DB trademark. I don't want to see any of these movies turn into crap, but I don't want to feel like I am watching a movie that was changed, just because the villain didn't have any personality, or because he was pink. They probably will change up the storyline for these movies, so it wouldn't be so bad if they changed Buu up a bit. But I don't want to see Brolly, any other DBZ villain, or a made up villain, taking the place of Buu. That is all I am saying.
Spiderman was changed up. Xmen was changed up. DBZ will most likely be changed up, but still follow the storyline of the sagas. So they can make Buu look different, and any other character for that matter. It isn't going to look like an anime you guys...
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Post by SSJTapion on Dec 16, 2004 16:21:59 GMT -5
If there were no Kid Buu then that would be the final straw and I would not go to see the films. Any of them.
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Post by rjxsapri® on Dec 16, 2004 19:26:34 GMT -5
If there were no Kid Buu then that would be the final straw and I would not go to see the films. Any of them. Isn't that being a bit too hardcore.
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Post by SnakeFire on Dec 16, 2004 21:17:50 GMT -5
I hope that they don't take out Buu. He would be an awesome test for the CGI artists out there, lol.
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Post by rjxsapri® on Dec 16, 2004 21:41:02 GMT -5
I don't know, is it me, or the main reason you guys want Buu is because you could not stand the movies to vary that much from the series? Let's stop for a moment and try to imagine the movie with Buu's character in it, how can you add depth to his character? When I see a good and convincing suggestion on how to do it, I will say that Buu is fine. I'm still waiting on Shinma's idea.
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Post by Grendel on Dec 16, 2004 21:57:39 GMT -5
I don't think you understand the character of Buu (and I mean no disrespect in saying that)...there was debth in Buu's character it was subtle...you have to pick it up....
Buu was created as an mindless killing machine with no conscience or feelings (and yes you can be created to be a mindless killing machine)...when he absorbed the fat kai and internal struggle began in Buu (one of good and evil) a struggle that is eventually won by evil (however the good still remains...super buu still has a conscience and still has feelings, the evil may in total control, but he still has those feelings. That is why he was scared and didn't want the fat kai to be removed...he knew that once that happened he would no longer have feelings and no longer have a conscience...he would become a mindless being again...
If you think about it...Buu is a sad existance...he gains a self and gains emotions...only to have the stripped from him in the end...losing himself in the process...all his pride in himself, all the gains he has made to better himself were all stripped away...
That is just my opinion and it is a quick explanation...if I had more time I could have gone in more debth
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Post by rjxsapri® on Dec 16, 2004 22:06:26 GMT -5
I don't think you understand the character of Buu (and I mean no disrespect in saying that)...there was debth in Buu's character it was subtle...you have to pick it up.... Buu was created as an mindless killing machine with no conscience or feelings (and yes you can be created to be a mindless killing machine)...when he absorbed the fat kai and internal struggle began in Buu (one of good and evil) a struggle that is eventually won by evil (however the good still remains...super buu still has a conscience and still has feelings, the evil may in total control, but he still has those feelings. That is why he was scared and didn't want the fat kai to be removed...he knew that once that happened he would no longer have feelings and no longer have a conscience...he would become a mindless being again... If you think about it...Buu is a sad existance...he gains a self and gains emotions...only to have the stripped from him in the end...losing himself in the process...all his pride in himself, all the gains he has made to better himself were all stripped away... That is just my opinion and it is a quick explanation...if I had more time I could have gone in more debth Ha! It actually never gives me that idea in the series. And I don't think I'm the one who misunderstood the character of Buu, but you're the one who had a different and better vision about him, even if they didn't pretend to make it like that in the series. I think that your vision of Buu is good, if they can make Buu be like a being with an "internal struggle" it would be great. That seems to add a lot of depth into his character, again, I don't think they tried to do that in the series, but it's a great idea of portraying him. That's a good idea for Buu, make him have an internal conflict with his own emotions, make him want to be good and evil at the same time. Great idea!
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Post by Grendel on Dec 16, 2004 22:26:42 GMT -5
I really do think that is what they are trying to portray with Buu (at least in the Funi dub)...
I will give a few clues from the series that I can think of off the top of my head...
1. When Kabito Kai is telling Old Kai about how Kidd Buu absorbed the Fat Kai he's says something to the effect that Buu surrendered some of his strength to gain those emotions...
2. When Vegeta is releasing Fat Kai from Buu's head...Buu begs him not to because he says if it happens that "I will no longer be me"...
3. There is s visible struggle in the Fat Buu between Good and Evil (the evil is stronger than the good in Buu)...and just when it looks like Buu has the evil under control it comes back and takes control (the battle between good and evil Buu)...Buu is then completely Evil because his evil side defeated his good side...however he still clings to his emotions (which is evident in #2)
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Post by Son Goshin on Dec 16, 2004 22:32:20 GMT -5
yup, that's an excellent point. defintetly have buu. if we don't that screws up an entire saga. plus as grendel has mentioned, hes a great character. he's a must for the movie
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Post by rjxsapri® on Dec 16, 2004 23:04:10 GMT -5
I really do think that is what they are trying to portray with Buu (at least in the Funi dub)... I will give a few clues from the series that I can think of off the top of my head... 1. When Kabito Kai is telling Old Kai about how Kidd Buu absorbed the Fat Kai he's says something to the effect that Buu surrendered some of his strength to gain those emotions... 2. When Vegeta is releasing Fat Kai from Buu's head...Buu begs him not to because he says if it happens that "I will no longer be me"... 3. There is s visible struggle in the Fat Buu between Good and Evil (the evil is stronger than the good in Buu)...and just when it looks like Buu has the evil under control it comes back and takes control (the battle between good and evil Buu)...Buu is then completely Evil because his evil side defeated his good side...however he still clings to his emotions (which is evident in #2) Well, even though I still think that Brolly would make a much better character than Buu and that not having Buu wouldn't screw up anything (I don't see why it would), I like this way of seein Buu's character, and it can work out. Not as good as Brolly IMO, but it can work out. The one thing they will definetely have to do is to present this in a better way so people won't have to just "guess" about his character and will know it from more noticeable clues in the movie. Another thing is that they will definetely have to get rid of some of the babyness of Fat Buu. He should be made to look like a good guy wich sometimes seems to go out of control. Like he releases his evil side when he gets mad or something. And finally, you can say that you want a movie with Buu coz you like Buu's character. But saying that you want Buu coz not having him would screw all the movies up doesn't make sense. Tell me, why would that screw it up? I don't see why changing or not putting a villain would screw up all the other movies. That's like saying that if they never make a Spiderman movie with Venom as the villain all the other movies would be screwed up. Nonsense
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Post by SSJTapion on Dec 17, 2004 10:29:59 GMT -5
If Kid Buu is a no-show then so am I. Call it hardcore if you want. I just think that removing a main saga villian will ruin it completely. Whats the point? Why put in Broly who sucks in comparison to Kid Buu? You might as well end at Cell.
Oh yeah, Grendel. Good points for Buu and I am glad that you are arguing for him but you are wrong on #1. Buu did not surrender strength for emotion. It just happened. He didn't know that would happen.
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Post by Son Goshin on Dec 17, 2004 10:48:18 GMT -5
If Kid Buu is a no-show then so am I. Call it hardcore if you want. I just think that removing a main saga villian will ruin it completely. Whats the point? Why put in Broly who sucks in comparison to Kid Buu? You might as well end at Cell. i sorta agree as well, although i'd still see the movie. now, if buu wasn't in the last movie, it wouldn't screw up the other 3, just the 4th one. why would you want to replace him with broly though? if you're looking for complexity, than buu is it. he's the most deep and complex character in DBZ, no doubt about it. and i'm talkin about all the forms of buu: fat, evil, super, and kid. they are all the same being but with different personalities. buu can be worked into one of the most complex characters we've seen in movies for a while. and i'm not saying broly has no depth, but he's only been in 3 movies while buu has been in about 70-80 episodes. so if you're going to make movies on the sagas of DBZ, buu MUST be included
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Post by SnakeFire on Dec 17, 2004 13:24:23 GMT -5
I really do think that is what they are trying to portray with Buu (at least in the Funi dub)... I will give a few clues from the series that I can think of off the top of my head... 1. When Kabito Kai is telling Old Kai about how Kidd Buu absorbed the Fat Kai he's says something to the effect that Buu surrendered some of his strength to gain those emotions... 2. When Vegeta is releasing Fat Kai from Buu's head...Buu begs him not to because he says if it happens that "I will no longer be me"... 3. There is s visible struggle in the Fat Buu between Good and Evil (the evil is stronger than the good in Buu)...and just when it looks like Buu has the evil under control it comes back and takes control (the battle between good and evil Buu)...Buu is then completely Evil because his evil side defeated his good side...however he still clings to his emotions (which is evident in #2) This is what I think- Buu (mentally), may not be making us think about the depth of his character, but what he goes through (physically) shows us the story of a mind that is going through the bases of being torn apart because of the battle between the good and bad that has set in. To me, Buu is like a painting- by that I mean you have to look at him to see what he is going through. He is symbolizyng battle that you usually only hear in words. Watching him and his actions will show the audience just what he is going through. So there is depth to his character, you just have to be good at watching it instead of listening to it...
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Post by DeLaRocha99 on Dec 17, 2004 13:39:10 GMT -5
I don't think you understand the character of Buu (and I mean no disrespect in saying that)...there was debth in Buu's character it was subtle...you have to pick it up.... Buu was created as an mindless killing machine with no conscience or feelings (and yes you can be created to be a mindless killing machine)...when he absorbed the fat kai and internal struggle began in Buu (one of good and evil) a struggle that is eventually won by evil (however the good still remains...super buu still has a conscience and still has feelings, the evil may in total control, but he still has those feelings. That is why he was scared and didn't want the fat kai to be removed...he knew that once that happened he would no longer have feelings and no longer have a conscience...he would become a mindless being again... If you think about it...Buu is a sad existance...he gains a self and gains emotions...only to have the stripped from him in the end...losing himself in the process...all his pride in himself, all the gains he has made to better himself were all stripped away... That is just my opinion and it is a quick explanation...if I had more time I could have gone in more debth Well, I was undecided on whether they should keep Buu or not. My opinion is that they need to modify Buu a bit. How? Well, they can just make everything Grendel said about Buu more obvious to the audience. Grendel had to look deep into Buu's character to come up with that explanation. And the audience isn't going to want to look deep into a character. They shouldn't have to. So I think that they should focus more on Buu's spirit and intentions and his struggle. That's the best way we can modify him. Good job Grendel...
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